Interview By Anatoliy Martsynovskyy with Aleksander Kwasniewski
Holos Ukrayiny, Kiev, in Ukrainian 30 Mar 04; p 1, 5
BBC Monitoring Service, UK, in English, Apr 10, 2004

The following is the text of an interview with Kwasniewski conducted by Anatoliy Martsynovskyy, published in the Ukrainian parliamentary newspaper Holos Ukrayiny on 30 March entitled "Aleksander Kwasniewski: The Year of Poland should complement political understanding through contacts between people"; subheadings have been inserted editorially:

[Martsynovskyy] Mr President, what do you think should be the final outcome of The Year of Poland in Ukraine? What does it signify to Ukrainian society?

[Kwasniewski] I think that events like The Year of Poland in Ukraine should add a societal human factor to political dialogue and understanding. These are occasions which make it possible to show cultural achievements, to foster contacts between common people, artists, scientists and youth. This will be very important so as to deepen relations between Poland and Ukraine.

On the other hand, this will sort of demonstrate that Poland, which joins the EU this year, does not turn its back on its closest eastern neighbour and wants to continue cooperating with it.

I hope that thanks to a good start on Tuesday and then thanks to the different actions by various establishments we will succeed in alleviating the tension that existed. Poland has well-kept Ukrainian cemeteries in Krakow, Lublin and Warsaw. Ukraine also has a cemetery in Kharkiv. A cemetery in Lviv, though we have not opened it formally, is also in a good state. There are monuments in Volyn [Region]: these are all the things which remove tension in relations between people. Many older people can go and see places familiar to them since their childhood. And it is exactly that moment when contacts between people and good positive feelings should complement politics.

Consequences of Poland's accession to EU

[Martsynovskyy] As of 1 May Poland joins the EU. How could this affect our economic relations? Does this pose a threat in terms of falling trade volumes?

[Kwasniewski] Entry into the EU gives Poland a chance to develop, but I am certain our membership of the [European] Union will promote development of relations with Ukraine and other eastern neighbours, Belarus and Russia. From the very beginning we firmly decided that Poland's accession to the EU should not erect any barriers in relations with our eastern partners and that there should be no "curtain" even if it is very light.

I think we managed to formulate a good visa system, and economically we will become increasingly interesting partners for you, more attractive from the perspective of the export of Ukrainian products to Poland and a Ukrainian economic presence in our state, investment.

It is crucial for us to have Ukraine engaged in common European processes through such significant cooperation. I even assume that for investors from third countries which already work in Poland, its entry into the EU might provide encouragement to operate on Ukrainian markets, so more investment could flow not only into Poland but also into Ukraine.

This will certainly require corresponding effort, but this is quite feasible. I would also like to stress that being in the EU we will be seeking to use our geographic position and urge the EU to determine its eastern policy so that this dimension would become as active and clear as, for example, its policy on the Mediterranean region, that is, North African countries. Access to Polish markets will become simpler and easier, so I am calling on Ukrainian entrepreneurs to look at this positively and think what could be gained from Poland's entry into the EU.

It will become more stable, have the same economic and legal standards as those in other EU states, and our immediate neighbourhood provides even more opportunities for cooperation. We would like Ukraine to move towards the EU, and we hope in the future it will become an associate and then fully fledged member of the EU.

Privatization of Polish steel plant to be checked

[Martsynovskyy] The story with the bid by the [Ukrainian Donetsk-based] Industrial Union of Donbass corporation in the privatization of the Polish [metallurgic] plant Huta Czestochowa proved to be a somewhat sore issue for the Ukrainian side. What is the situation with this now? Could Poland reconsider the results of the tender which have been announced?

[Kwasniewski] First of all, I should point out that this issue lies within the government's remit, not within the president's. Individual ministries of the government deal with it. But I can say that in tenders like this somebody wins and somebody loses, and those who lose have a certain sense of displeasure. We treat the Ukrainian government's remarks very seriously.

[Ukrainian] Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych sent a letter to our prime minister, Leszek Miller, and it will receive a competent reply. For this we have set up a task force which should evaluate the whole procedure and see whether any mistakes were made. The task force should finish its work and present results next week. If we see that tender procedures were complied with, we will uphold the decision. If we see that any incorrect actions were involved, the situation will be different.

However, in any case one should not interpret this case as, to put it figuratively, "to be or not to be". We also take part in many tenders. Some of them we win, some of them we lose - that is a nature of this process. And I would like to say: we are interested in the presence of Ukrainian capital and Ukrainian enterprises in Poland. The Polish Ministry of Property presented a list of over 200 privatization facilities, and we invited our Ukrainian friends to take part in their privatization. As to the Industrial Union of Donbass, which we regard as a very serious enterprise, we also invite it to bid in the privatization of other facilities, in particular those in the metallurgy sector.

Cultural, religious divisions in Europe should be averted

[Martsynovskyy] In his recently published book ["The Limits of Europe"] EU [Single Market] Commissioner Frits Bolkestein writes that Ukraine will never gain membership of the EU because it will remain a "buffer" zone between the EU, Russia and Muslim states in the south. How would you comment on such statements?

[Kwasniewski] You know, we live in democratic countries where every person can express his views. And so I view the stance which you mentioned as being one of these views. I do not agree with such a concept. I am strongly against this. Especially in view of the fact that the world blended together a long time ago: Muslims are today present in Europe, many of them live in France, Germany and other countries. Christians live in many Muslim states.

So the concept according to which we will define the EU's geographic boundaries and a geographical "buffer" zone and then protect ourselves against influences of other cultures or religions is a bad concept which will breed conflict.

Of course, the EU's borders exist in the sense that it is hard, for example, to imagine its stretching up to the Pacific Ocean. There are no reasons for this, and in this case the EU would lose its active capacity. In the future the world will have several centres, and Russia and the EU, that is, a united Europe, will be among them. It is obvious to me that Ukraine lies in the European part and should join European structures as an equal partner.

As regards Russia which is by nature a Eurasian state, the question is much more difficult. I am absolutely convinced that Ukraine has a place in Europe, and things are in your own hands. If we live by the same democratic, legal and economic standards, geography does not matter much. When these standards are adhered to, Ukraine will occupy its place in the European structures.

[Martsynovskyy] Do you think it is possible to heighten the level of cooperation between Ukraine and NATO at the Istanbul summit in June? Will Poland uphold this?

[Kwasniewski] Without doubt. We want the summit between Ukraine and NATO to be held at the highest possible level, in a sincere and benevolent atmosphere. We have a hope that this will be a successful summit, although one should keep in mind that it will be held when presidential election campaigns are being waged both in Ukraine and in the US. This will not be an easy time, but I believe it will be a good summit.

Urges foreign partners not to ignore Ukraine

[Martsynovskyy] A few months ago you met US President George Bush, and reportedly, your conversation brought up Ukraine among other things. What exactly did you discuss?

[Kwasniewski] I gave my assessment of the situation in Ukraine, and it seemed to me that both President Bush and his entourage listened with interest. I was under the impression that I was regarded as a sort of expert on Ukrainian issues. Believe me that during contacts abroad I always call on partners to cooperate with Ukraine as closely as possible so that they do not give up due to various difficulties and problems, so that the relations between your state and the EU and US are active and consistent. Although these were not easy issues, I discuss them very often and quite candidly with foreign colleagues.

Ukrainian society needs more dialogue

[Martsynovskyy] You, of course, are quite familiar with the current events and processes inside Ukraine. How important or decisive could they be for further development of Ukrainian-Polish relations?

[Kwasniewski] As regards Ukraine's domestic political situation, I can say the following: if I myself did not know the problems in Poland, I would probably be more generous in offering advice. However, since there is no lack of such political problems at home at the present time, I will refrain.

I tell all my interlocutors in the world: Ukraine has made great progress towards democracy, its major democratic institutions have been set up and the foundations of multiparty political pluralism set up.

I think that the problem in Ukraine is a lack of dialogue between different sides with a view to finding an optimal solution. Poland's experience, which comes from the palace where we find ourselves at the present time, is experience of a "round table". Such dialogue should ensue in parliament, society and the mass media.

The more dialogue, the better it is: I have always worked with Ukraine in such a spirit. I want Ukraine to develop. I wish it all the best and believe that your state has the best prospects. I stress that independent sovereign Ukraine is a great asset to Europe. And we should cultivate this.